Comments on: Cocktail Science: Does Crushed Ice Dilute More? The International Culinary Center's Tech 'N Stuff Blog Thu, 09 Jan 2014 18:17:16 +0000 hourly 1 By: erik_flannestad Fri, 23 Jul 2010 17:53:53 +0000 Hope there will be a blog post to follow, as I won’t be at Tales!

By: Dave A Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:37:23 +0000 Hi Erik,
I’m sure Eben Klemm will have us doing the data for stiring soon. I think we are doing it at this year’s tales of the cocktail. Chilling glasses will certainly help.

By: erik_flannestad Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:54:09 +0000 I suppose that is true.

Still kind of curious, as there is a significant difference between the contact of the ice/drink with a shaken tin and that it experiences when stirred in a heavy tempered glass vessel.

For example, many New York bars chill the glasses the use for stirred drinks in freezers.

I can imagine that the heavy chilled glass might have a more significant chilling effect than the ice. Heck, the ice might even warm the drink.

Also curious about the data when stirring with cracked vs. cubed ice.

By: Dave A Wed, 03 Feb 2010 02:43:57 +0000 Hi Erik,
I haven’t done the work, but my feeling is that stirring is just a less effective form of shaking (from a heat transfer standpoint). The basic premise of all the cocktail posts is that there is no chilling other than through the melting of ice.

By: erik_ellestad Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:44:56 +0000 It’s fun that you have been concentrating on shaking cocktails, but I am curious about how these experiments would apply to stirred drinks.

By: Dave A Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:46:11 +0000 Howdy Jason,
All of our tests so far show that too little ice results in underchilled watery drinks. I think it is because they aren’t efficient enough to chill rapidly. I’m not sure yet. Our tests also show that after a certain point, adding more ice doesn’t help.

By: Jason Sat, 12 Dec 2009 23:32:31 +0000 I don’t think enough has been made of the amount of ice used and it’s relation to the overall temperature of the vessel i.e. a shaker i/2 full of ice will create more dilution than a shaker full of ice because t it stays colder – despite the fact there is more surface area in a full shaker of ice.

By: Dave A Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:50:23 +0000 Howdy,
I see you have posted more on this in the Pegu post, so I’m switching there.

By: Dave A Sun, 06 Dec 2009 18:05:29 +0000 Howdy Senor Schwartz,

You are 100% correct that the spinning isn’t a practical suggestion. Its just meant to show where the actual dilution is happening. It isn’t the smallness of the ice that is killing you, its the large surface area and entrained water. The more important information to be gleaned is that medium sized cubes (crap ice) doesn’t have that much more entrained water than larger cubes, like Kold Draft. It also might be useful to give your ice a shake or two before you use it if you are unfortunate enough to use shell ice that stores water like a cup.

Keeping ice in the freezer, as you know, keeps surface water down as long as you don’t have problems with cracking (I know you guys are experts on ice tempering).

Ice is a good conductor of heat. It is 4 times better than water. Additionally, ice has a lower heat capacity than water, so it doesn’t provide that much cooling before it starts melting (of course if you use a lot of ice that is a lot colder than freezing you could accomplish a lot of chilling prior to melting). I think the center of the ice will come up to freezing relatively quickly.

I’d love to do the experiments on with you. We’ll just freeze some cubes with a probe in them, pull them out and see how long they take to go to 0 (32). We’ll do a couple of sizes.

By: jschwartz Sun, 06 Dec 2009 17:11:15 +0000 On a separate note, have any other effects of varying ice been noted? For example, aeration, formation of a fine crystalline froth, other textural, visual and presentation aspects that make up some the enjoyable qualities of a well shaken drink?

Thanks for your efforts at uncovering some aspects of the mechanics of what goes on in the shaker.