Comments on: Umami Nation 2: Kelp-a-Go-Go — Plus Bonus Demo with Chef Suzuki http://www.cookingissues.com/2011/01/11/umami-nation-2-kelp-a-go-go-plus-bonus-demo-with-chef-suzuki/ The International Culinary Center's Tech 'N Stuff Blog Thu, 09 Jan 2014 18:17:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.0 By: Oatmeal Dashi « FoundOnWeb http://www.cookingissues.com/2011/01/11/umami-nation-2-kelp-a-go-go-plus-bonus-demo-with-chef-suzuki/#comment-90840 Tue, 13 Sep 2011 12:25:52 +0000 http://www.cookingissues.com/?p=5024#comment-90840 [...] tuna flakes. There are different kinds of kombu seaweed, and it seems to matter how you cook it, which part of the seaweed you use, and where the seaweed came from. I’d call it terrior, but it’s under [...]

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By: davearnold http://www.cookingissues.com/2011/01/11/umami-nation-2-kelp-a-go-go-plus-bonus-demo-with-chef-suzuki/#comment-30400 Wed, 18 May 2011 01:00:12 +0000 http://www.cookingissues.com/?p=5024#comment-30400 While there is no added MSG in Konbu, and it’s true that aqueous glutamic acid mixed with NaOH once dehydrated will produce crystalline MSG; since MSG freely ionizes in water to form glutamic acid and sodium, and kombu contains both free glutamic acid and ionizable sodium (plenty, in fact), wouldn’t you agree that konbu, for all intents and purposes, contains MSG?

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By: WM Batchelor III http://www.cookingissues.com/2011/01/11/umami-nation-2-kelp-a-go-go-plus-bonus-demo-with-chef-suzuki/#comment-25824 Wed, 11 May 2011 02:57:08 +0000 http://www.cookingissues.com/?p=5024#comment-25824 Mr Arnold,

Kombu does not contain MSG. It contains glutamic acid to which sodium hydroxide is added to form the precipitate monosodium glutamate.

You want to use a soft water, the lower the calcium content the better.

Mushrooms contain guanyline monophosphate and katsuobushi contain inosine monophosphate. Both are 5’ribonucleotides and act in synergy with glutamic acid to enhance the umami experience.

The ideal extraction for kombu is 60-63C although this is debatable and I have tested 65C as well. For my extractions I use a water bath and glass beaker. Anything over that and you are extracting elements of chlorophyll which can be bitter and vegetal. To create the dashi you will then use a second water bath (or just remove the kombu and heat to 80 C) Add katsuobushi, allow to sink and strain through micron filter (super bag or even coffee filter). Process shouldnt take more than 2 hrs.

Hope this helps.

W.M. Batchelor III

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By: davearnold http://www.cookingissues.com/2011/01/11/umami-nation-2-kelp-a-go-go-plus-bonus-demo-with-chef-suzuki/#comment-16488 Wed, 09 Mar 2011 05:08:48 +0000 http://www.cookingissues.com/?p=5024#comment-16488 I hadn’t thought of that.

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By: shigeru http://www.cookingissues.com/2011/01/11/umami-nation-2-kelp-a-go-go-plus-bonus-demo-with-chef-suzuki/#comment-16408 Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:18:02 +0000 http://www.cookingissues.com/?p=5024#comment-16408 It is quite natural that multivalent cation like calcium in hard water would prevent the extraction of umami from Kombus, since Kombus are also rich in alginate.

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By: davearnold http://www.cookingissues.com/2011/01/11/umami-nation-2-kelp-a-go-go-plus-bonus-demo-with-chef-suzuki/#comment-15704 Thu, 24 Feb 2011 00:51:31 +0000 http://www.cookingissues.com/?p=5024#comment-15704 Howdy David,
I have read the same thing you just mentioned and have also hear it from the Kyoto crew. I haven’t run the tests, however. It’d be pretty easy. Just get some very mineralized but good tasting water (like Gerolsteiner without gas) and make dashi with it side by side with NY Water. Even More ballsy would be to make Stong dashi with .5 liter of gerolsteiner and .5 liter of NYC Tap and then dilute the tape with gerolsteiner and the gerolsteiner with tap (apples vs apples).

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By: david http://www.cookingissues.com/2011/01/11/umami-nation-2-kelp-a-go-go-plus-bonus-demo-with-chef-suzuki/#comment-14472 Wed, 02 Feb 2011 19:06:05 +0000 http://www.cookingissues.com/?p=5024#comment-14472 Your Kombu post was most informative. I may have missed something in the post but i think it should be mentioned about the water to be used for the Kombu. The Kyoto chefs that I have worked with have mentioned to me countless times it is useless to use Rishiri, or any other Kombus if you do not use a very soft water. The amino acid and flavor extraction is nothing if a hard mineral water is used. they specify this all the time, especially with Rishiri use, their Grand Cru kombu of choice. Unless I am missing something, the control of the different tastes of kombu, their maximum potential, is unrealized unless the water used is considered; which they will tell you is really the most significant factor in any multifaceted dashi based preparation.

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By: davearnold http://www.cookingissues.com/2011/01/11/umami-nation-2-kelp-a-go-go-plus-bonus-demo-with-chef-suzuki/#comment-13878 Tue, 25 Jan 2011 02:12:57 +0000 http://www.cookingissues.com/?p=5024#comment-13878 I haven’t, but I haven’t been looking for it.

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By: Cameron http://www.cookingissues.com/2011/01/11/umami-nation-2-kelp-a-go-go-plus-bonus-demo-with-chef-suzuki/#comment-13853 Mon, 24 Jan 2011 22:12:13 +0000 http://www.cookingissues.com/?p=5024#comment-13853 I usually use dried shiitakes . I use 20g/L kombu, 10 or 20g/L of shiitake depending on the application. I find that the 20g kombu, 10g shiitake combination can make a pretty credible chicken stock substitute for a lot of veggie dishes. Definitely much better than any of the commercial vegetarian/vegan stock or bouillon crap I’ve tried.

Have you ever noticed a distinct allium flavour in the kombu dashis that you’ve made? The last kombu I used had this bizarre wild garlic taste sometimes (though no allium aroma).

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By: davearnold http://www.cookingissues.com/2011/01/11/umami-nation-2-kelp-a-go-go-plus-bonus-demo-with-chef-suzuki/#comment-13830 Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:31:23 +0000 http://www.cookingissues.com/?p=5024#comment-13830 Cool. Have you experimented augmenting with different mushrooms? I’d like to do a katsuobushi vs mushroom in kombu test for umami levels (obviously the taste wouldn’t be the same.

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